[SIP Beyond VoIP] Sylkserver Participant Management

Andreas Bachmann andreas at jibemobile.com
Tue Jul 16 13:04:00 CEST 2013

I think a basic policy set is nice and something u would expect from
systems like that. That other services as skype for example. There it's
also not possible for anyone to join any group chat or kick somebody if u
don't have the right to do so.

I think more than 90% of the use cases can be tackled by a simple limited
set of rules.

can-add : [creator | anybody]
can-remove : [creator | invitee | anybody]

If u want to put another one top:

can-join : [invited | anybody]

That prevents anybody to join the group which has not been invited before.

This is not a "I want to have this" - but just a thought on what would be

Andreas Bachmann

Head of Realtime Communication Engineering
Jibe Mobile
990 N Rengstorff Ave
Mountain View, CA 94043
Tel: +1 (650) 336-JIBE
Fax: +1 (415) 358-4254


On 16.07.13 12:35, "Adrian Georgescu" <ag at ag-projects.com> wrote:

>On Jul 16, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Michiel Leenaars <michiel.ml at nlnet.nl>
>> Hi Adrian,
>>>> It worked well for me, I'm happy to report. I played around with
>>>> participant management. One thing I noticed: am I correct that I could
>>>> not only remove people in the room that I had invited to a Sylkserver
>>>> conference myself - with add_participant user at domain.com - but also
>>>> other people unrelated to me (as in: my other account when it had
>>>> registered itself independently to the chatroom)? That seems
>>>> to me - some chatbot can come in and kick out all the participants
>>>> all rooms.
>>> How do you know the room names?
>> I think security by obscurity works reasonably well for ad hoc meetings,
>> although probing is cheap (e.g. dictionary attack). You could add
>> something to the server that allows to see if someone is trying out many
>> different rooms for activity sequentially. That would raise that cost
>> and help prevent abuse.
>How do you try in a sequence a random string?
>wfewbehuwgr3uruo3pi503957823bc56 at conference.sip2sip.info
>is a valid room.
>How to you guess it?
>Also trying requires infinite time as a call setup takes several seconds
>to complete. Then what do you have to gain probing random chat rooms?
>There is no incentive to do that.
>> Other use cases are different from ad hoc conferences like you mention,
>> I guess more like a classic IRC channel that is persistent and
>> publically known.
>For this you can define static rooms in server configuration. Only SIP
>addresses configured for the room can join. Unfortunately SIP does not
>have primitives for creating room policy.
>> This would be akin to a publicly announced conference
>> room where potentially many people participate over a longer period. In
>> that case confidentiality is not the issue, but it would be embarassing
>> if thousands of people are dropped off because of one person trolling.
>Well, such lists can be managed out of band, but this is complex
>Remember that SylkServer implements ad-hoc rooms, we never claimed such
>policy can be managed. Ad hoc simply do not have such advanced policy,
>there are just simple to use. Simple to use is key, if stuff is
>complicated and requires management very few adopt it.
>> Also, it would be great if someone could somehow be granted a channel
>> operator role (perhaps not on sip2sip.info service, but in case of a
>> self installed system).
>Well, sky is the limit for developing such advanced features if resources
>allow it. I also have tons of additions in my head, webrtc end-point, web
>page management, streaming...
>>> Yes, it would be nice to have such controls, but without extra
>>> developments they are not possible out of the box.
>> Understood. We definitely need more manpower to work on these important
>> projects. We can't expect you and your team to solve everything for us.
>> Best,
>> Michiel Leenaars
>> -- 
>> drs. M.A.G.J. Leenaars
>> Director of Strategy
>> NLnet foundation
>> Science Park 400
>> 1098 XH Amsterdam
>> Netherlands
>> http://nlnet.nl
>> sip/xmpp: michiel [@t] nlnet.nl
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